Interview

JC: Of course, because the values that I discuss in my book are the same values I preached about in ancient times that got me crucified. Naturally, most people give lip service to these values, but they do not actually practice them. How could they, when they are preoccupied with the accumulation of material wealth and power? And anyone who threatens to change the system will be destroyed, just as I was almost 2,000 years ago, and perhaps will be again- if I don't succeed in convincing a majority of citizens to take my teachings seriously. But it's not going to be easy; I have Satan to contend with.

OR: When you use the word "Satan," do you mean it literally or metaphorically?

JC: Let me make this clear, because you seem a little confused about the subject, which is understandable, since there has been much debate over the centuries about whether the Bible (including what I have said in the Bible) should be taken literally or figuratively. The answer is this: Everyone, from time immemorial, thinks and speaks in both literal and figurative terms. The individuals who wrote the Bible were no different. Some of the stories they wrote about were true in a literal sense, but many of them were allegories or metaphors, and are not to be taken literally. In a more profound sense, what matters most is not whether the stories are literal facts or figures of speech, or whether individuals interpret words like "God" or "Satan" as metaphorical representations or actual spiritual beings. What really matters-

OR: Hold on a second. What's the difference between a metaphorical representation of a spiritual being and an actual spiritual being?

JC: Good question! If you say God is Love, that's a metaphor. If you say God loves everyone, that implies an actual spiritual being. Neither of these statements is a scientific fact, of course, and both of them must be taken on faith. So does it matter which interpretation we choose? What really matters is whether the stories and characters of the Bible are understood from the proper perspective. For example, in the Old Testament in the book of Leviticus (Chapter 20: Verses 10 and 13), it says unequivocally that adulterers and homosexuals are not only living in sin but should be killed. Does this mean Christians today should kill anyone who is an adulterer or homosexual? If we interpret the Bible literally, that would be the logical conclusion. Of course that would not only be absurd, it would be against everything that I believe in. Nevertheless, there are Christians today who try to justify the killing or persecution of their fellow man because they claim they are following a literal translation of the Bible.

OR: So when you said at the beginning of our conversation that you are Jesus Christ in both a literal and metaphorical sense, this is what you meant.

JC: Precisely. It is also what I mean by the title of my book. I am Jesus because I embody the values of Jesus, and anyone can be Jesus if he or she embodies my values and follows my teachings.

OR: But is anyone today actually following your teachings? And I don't mean just by going to church on Sunday or mouthing platitudes.

JC: Yes, there are some, but they are usually not in positions of power. And if they attempt to rise to a position of power and get their message out to a mass audience, they are quickly discredited or demonized by the mainstream media. This is the reason I can't suddenly leap onto the national scene with my message. I have to take it slowly and build a mass following first. Otherwise, I will be held up to ridicule and destined to fail.

OR: Like Howard Dean, for example. Not that I'm comparing him with you.

JC: Yes, that's right. Howard Dean was and still is preaching a populist message and attempting to reach a mass audience. So is Ralph Nader. Unfortunately, both these men are facing an uphill battle because their messages are geared to help a majority of Americans at the expense of the rich and powerful. In a sense, they are attempting to do politically what I am attempting to do spiritually. But, as you know, this is a very difficult task, made even more difficult by the mainstream media, which have, in effect, brainwashed millions of Americans to believe that social reformers with a populist message are crazy. And it doesn't just apply to individuals. It works the same with social programs. Which is why we don't have an affordable health care system for everyone in our country, or a national renewable energy program, or real campaign finance reform. And on and on. It's not that we don't have the know how or the resources to institute these programs; it's that these programs run counter to the rich and powerful business interests- the devil's disciples, if you will- that are in control of the government and the mass media.

OR:Do you think you will have any better luck today changing the hearts and minds of the individuals in power than you did in ancient times? I mean, let's face it, the Bush administration is completely dominated by neoconservative chicken hawks and ruthless big business scam artists. Do you really think they'll be an easier sell than the vengeful Jewish rabbis and sadistic Roman oligarchs that crucified you the last time around?

JC:As you know, faith can move mountains.

OR:Now you are speaking metaphorically! In any case, I wish you the best of luck.

JC:Thank you. And God bless you.